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Here's why the trade for Vince Carter was a good one

06/25/09 | by Zach McCann [mail] | Categories: Analysis

The Magic’s decision to acquire Vince Carter has certainly been greeted with a mixed reaction from Magic fans. Some love it, some hate it — and there really is no in between.

Personally, I love it. Here are five reasons why.

1. He wants to be here.

Carter, who went to high school in Daytona Beach, said coming home to play in Orlando is a “dream come true.” I know that’s one of those things players say, but with Carter it really is true. He wanted to come to Orlando when he was a free agent in 2007, when the Magic spent their free-agent cash on Rashard Lewis. Now, out of nowhere, he’s going to be playing in front of his friends and family every night.

“It’s a big deal for me,” Carter said. “It’s a wonderful opportunity. I’ve done so much for my community back in Daytona Beach and my high school coach, when he heard it, was excited. It just blows my mind.”

Added Carter, who was at a basketball camp in Daytona Beach when he heard the news: “I am excited, proud and just ready to represent my hometown well.”

Carter’s been associated with terms like cancer and headcase before, but he’s never been in this good of a situation. He’s on a young, talented team that just went to the NBA Finals and plays 30 minutes from his childhood home. How can you beat that?

2. Carter won’t be penalized for taking shots.

Carter is not shy about shooting. He’s a guy who will fire away if he has any room, even when he’s missing a lot of his shots. In the past, his tendency to attack the basket has gotten him in hot water with his coaches, teammates and fans alike.

But Stan Van Gundy’s system is renowned for not penalizing players for shooting.

It’s a big reason Hedo Turkoglu transformed into a playmaker when Van Gundy came aboard — he was no longer looking over his shoulder when his shots weren’t falling. I believe Carter will succeed in similar fashion.

Van Gundy won’t be shy about giving Carter the ball.

“With Vince, you can give him the ball anywhere on the floor and he can isolate and create a shot either for himself or for a teammate on his own,” Van Gundy said. “Plus, if you look at the numbers like we do all the time… Vince has been, throughout his career, one of the best fourth quarter and end-of-game guys in this league, in terms of production. He’s been a guy that has always come through down the stretch in games.”

3. It proves the Magic want to win now… and they’re going to make sure of it.

Otis Smith could’ve waited around, threw a couple convenient offers to Hedo Turkoglu and watched him take more money elsewhere. That would’ve been easy, and nobody would’ve blamed Smith for letting Turk walk away for a huge contract.

But instead of being reactive, Smith and Co. were proactive. They didn’t want to be in a position where they have to “explain ourselves to everybody,” Stan Van Gundy said.

They put their fate into their own hands, dealing for a dynamic offensive player who is the best scorer in an Orlando Magic uniform since Carter’s cousin, Tracy McGrady. While many teams tread water with deadbeat GMs and uncommitted owners, the Magic are run by people who really want to see this team win.

Even if the Magic can't sign Turkoglu - it will be hard, Smith said - it’s awesome to see the Orlando brass out there making things happen.

4. Defense will be forced out of Carter.

Most of the trade's naysayers point to Carter's supposed lack of defensive competence. But look at Orlando’s roster last season.

Hedo Turkoglu, Rashard Lewis and Jameer Nelson were considered humongous defensive liabilities early in their career. Alongside Dwight Howard and underneath Van Gundy, they’ve became part of the best defensive unit in the NBA.

A lot of that success can be attributed to Van Gundy’s constant barking, sweating and moaning. Some of it can be attributed to team chemistry. Whatever the reason, Orlando’s players are clearly squeezing every drop of defensive juice out of themselves.

“We’ve got a team of very good offensive players who have to be willing to make the commitment on the defensive end of the floor,” Van Gundy said.

5. There's a clear starting lineup, and the Magic are guaranteed an offensive catalyst.

There'll be no more waffling between Redick and Lee, Lee and Pietrus, Pietrus and Redick. There will be no more wondering which guard will play during crunch time. There won't be any yanking of minutes or unexpected playing time. As it stands, there will be a clear-cut starting and ending five for the Magic. The collection of Nelson-Carter-Turkoglu/Pietrus-Lewis-Howard will see all of the important minutes. It sounds trivial, but the inflation and deflation of minutes can have an effect on players' psyche and chemistry.

Carter may not pose the unique matchup problems that Turkoglu does, but he’s undoubtedly a superior offensive threat compared to Turkoglu. In addition to his ability to create in isolation, Carter is exceptional and driving through the lane and working off of pick-and-rolls. For his career, Carter is averaging 23.5 points and 4.7 assists, and he’s never been surrounded by as much talent as he will be in Orlando.

Seriously, I love the trade. Regardless of what happens over the next few months, I can’t wait to see Carter in an Orlando uniform.

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33 comments, 312 trackbacks

Comment from: afallingbomb28 [Member] Email
I'll still wait and see what happens the rest of the off-season to figure out how good/bad this trade actually is.

I agree with all of your points, but I don't really think Pietrus/VC will be a defined 2 or 3 they both will rotate that position.

So our 2nd string would be:
AJ
JJ
x
Ryan
Gortat (hopefully we resign him now)

Still need another SF type player for depth and another big guy to help out Dwight and this roster is probably set.

So I guess the rest of the off-season is:
1) Hedo, probably wont resign him now but could sign & trade for a solid PF
2) Address the depth

Should be interesting to see how the line up changes from now to opening night.
06/25/09 @ 23:39
Comment from: Danny [Visitor]
I still can't believe no one is talking about Grant Hill. He's going to sign a cheap deal and had a great season last year. We need a backup PF behind Rashard. We will sign a vet like Rasheed Wallace for our PF whole, though Ryan/Gortat certainly could start.
06/26/09 @ 00:11
Comment from: Matthew Davis [Visitor] · http://www.twitter.com/15048
All right, Magic fans. This is a Nets (not a VC) fan here, just thought I'd help you adjust to the idea of Vince Carter being on your team.

1. You mentioned him being a cancer. You could not be further from the truth. This guy is one of the most genuine players in the league. He talks to his fans, signs autographs, laughs, paid for a multi-million dollar drug rehab center by himself and is an absolutely terrific teammate.

2. To re-emphasize, he is a terrific teammate. Especially in this young Magic team, you should expect him to take the young guys under his wing (Reddick, even Dwight). Expect him to become the undisputed leader of this team. Expect an improved Reddick, more comfortable in his role.

3. He is not selfish. He is actually one of the better non-PG passers in the league. He will kindly reduce his shot volume for the good of the team or to appease a teammate looking for touches. The last two years have seen him allow one of his teammates to take the leading scorer crown from him; Devin Harris and Richard Jefferson. He even played (very effectively) backup PG for up to ten minute spurts for the Nets last year.

4. His defense is not atrocious. Not great, but I'd go so far to say good. Not a liability but not a stopper. That's one area the Magic need to target after losing Lee and Turk.

5. The Magic finally have that elusive go-to guy that can create. I believe this cost them in the Finals. Carter can get you a quality shot from anywhere in as little time as you need. He is as clutch as anyone in the league, up there with Kobe and LeBron.

Be happy, Magic fans. Get a defensive-minded backup wing and you're set for another deep playoffs run.

Questions, hit me at www.twitter.com/15048.
06/26/09 @ 05:10
Comment from: Padrick [Visitor]
The main difference between Carter and Turkoglu is that Carter is a full two years older.

I'll go the Bill Simmons route: Would you rather have Carter 16.3 and 17.3 for the next two years or have Hedo at a similar rate for the next five years? Are you sure you would pick Carter?

How, exactly, are Carter and Hedo different? Hedo turns the ball over more frequently, but what else? Their win shares have been essentially the same the past two seasons.

And wasn't Hedo the so-called playmaker for Orlando? Is Vince that much better? I don't think so.

Also, let's not forget 2004, when he literally stopped caring with Toronto, forced a trade, and then started playing again.

And trading away Lee was moronic.
06/26/09 @ 06:08
Comment from: Dee Williams [Visitor] Email
Guys turk didn't accept the offer otis
put on the table we can't get caught up
with turk signing or not time is running
out GM are making moves we have to be
smart and aggresive we should try to
get Rasheed Wallace thats a big upgrade
with R Wallace and V Carter this can
be done if turk walks. Look nelson,carter
R Lewis R Wallace D Howard thats pretty
good with no picks this year
06/26/09 @ 06:40
Comment from: gtgator [Visitor]
I love this deal for all the reasons Zach mentioned and then some.

1) Yes, VC is older than Hedo. But at his peak he was also a better player. And he was a better player (19.35 PER vs. 14.82) and shooter (.437 FG/ .385 3FG/ .817 FT vs .413/ .356/ .807) than Hedo last season. So he may be further along the age curve, but his curve is simply higher than Hedo's.

2) Yes, VC is 4 inches shorter. But he's also quicker/more athletic. He'll be able to handle guarding the quicker SF better than Hedo and with better leaping ability, he won't be overmatched against taller SF who try to post him up. Heck, at 4 inches shorter he still has averaged twice as many blocks as Hedo last year and in his career.

3) This is a 2 year committment - not 5 years. If VC tanks next year, you have a great trade chip (expiring contract) next off-season. With Hedo, what if his decline from 2007-8 to 2008-9 was not a fluke? What if he declines further? You're then stuck with a guy making $10MM+ for the next 4 years. There is simply much less risk with VC here.

4) Lastly, I am not thrilled with losing Lee. But don't forget about Anderson. At 6' 10", he's a solid rebounder (9.5/40 min) and can hit the 3 (.365) - which means he fits this offense. And quality big men are simply harder to find than quality perimeter players.

If the team can find a way to resign Hedo, even better. But as I doubt that, I still think this deal makes the team better next season and reduces risk in subsequent seasons. Plus, we are a "hot" team now with a young nucleus - which is always appealing to vets looking for one last shot at a ring.
06/26/09 @ 08:06
Comment from: Luke [Visitor]
we needed a more explosive player on the perimeter to help Dwight.Vince carter wants to play here since its his home state and he can hit the open jumper or he can drive and finish at the rim.Hedo still has a pretty good chance of coming back but it is going to be harder now that we are paying for carters salary.Hedo wants to come back and the magic want him back so maybe if the magic compromise with Hedo we can have back for a good price.Otis Smith said that the free agency market is going to be robust for him.if the magic sign Hedo this offseason my prediction of there starting line up is:
C-Dwight Howard
PF-Rashard Lewis
SF-Hedo Turkoglu
SG-Vince Carter
PG-Jameer Nelson
06/26/09 @ 08:45
Comment from: Stephen [Visitor]
Really like the trade.
Anderson is going to be a big part of the Magic as he gives the team a legit PF.
Wouldn't be too suprised if Rashard moves back to the 3,Ryan starting and Reddick and Pietrus as core of bench.
I doubted Otis early on,but he's truly rolling now.
06/26/09 @ 10:19
Comment from: ryan [Visitor]
Here's what Otis Smith just did to a team that went to the finals by having the uniquely perfect personnel to beat a 66 win Cavs team that had homecourt advantage:

Add: Vince Carter and Ryan Anderson

Subtract: Courtney Lee, Tony Battie, Rafer Alston (and likely) Hedo Turkoglu and Marcin Gortat

Way to blow up a team that had the Cavs' number Otis. We had no answer for Hedo's pick-n-roll game, but thankfully won't have to deal with that now. Also, good luck "forcing that defense" out of Vince. It has to be in him in the first place before it can be forced out.

Thanks for making the Magic thinner than the Olsen twins and making the road easier for the Cavs, Otis. The northshore appreciates it.
06/26/09 @ 10:50
Comment from: Mark [Visitor]
Wow Ryan... I guess you didn't know that VC is pretty good at the pick & roll. The only difference is he's quicker than Turk. So you don't gain any advantage there.

Battie barely played in the Cleveland series so you can leave him out of it.

The Magic also gained Anderson who had arguably as good a rookie year as Lee, but he plays for the Nets who nobody cares about right now so it went unnoticed by fans.

Plus the Magic still have a very good chance of bringing back Gortat.

Nelson tore Cleveland and LA apart in the regular season, so add a healthy Jameer Nelson to the additions.

There isn't enough minutes for Nelson, Alston, and AJ, so we shipped out Alston.

There isn't enough minutes for Carter, Pietrus, and Lee (and Reddick), so we shipped out Lee.

Nice try on painting a picture of doom and gloom, but anybody who truly understands this trade isn't buying what you're selling.

Peace!
06/26/09 @ 11:21
Comment from: Perfundle [Visitor]
"Add: Vince Carter and Ryan Anderson

Subtract: Courtney Lee, Tony Battie, Rafer Alston (and likely) Hedo Turkoglu and Marcin Gortat"

Turkoglu didn't agree with the Magic's offer before the trade, so he wasn't going to leave anyway. With Nelson back, the Magic had no need for Alston. And with Battie gone, they probably are going to try to resign Gortat.

"Way to blow up a team that had the Cavs' number Otis."

And also did not have the Lakers' number due to a lack of a go-to guy/weakness at the 2.
06/26/09 @ 11:34
Comment from: Perfundle [Visitor]
Oops, that should be "so he was going to leave anyway."
06/26/09 @ 11:34
Comment from: Jason [Visitor]
I don't know what some of you are smoking, but this was an amazing trade!!! And I'm not some punk kid who gets all overly excited about the offseason. gtgator above showed that Carter's #'s were better than Hedo's not only for his career, but for LAST Season. He also had the bright perception that Hedo declined from 07-08 to 08-09 and could likely keep heading that way with a nice payday. If you had been listening to the small talk from the organization near the end of the season you would know that Hedo was on his way out. He does not bring intensity every night and can be rather lax quite often. I believe he is the main cause for the
Magic stinking it up at the end of the season and the first round or two of the playoffs. To say that Vince is a downgrade to Hedo is ridiculous. And if Hedo is such a good defensive player, how come he was not the one defending Lebron and Kobe regularly? He is not a good defender, that is why.

Last thing, please pay attention to the character of players that Otis has assembled here. With that said, there is no way that Rasheed Wallace will ever get signed by Otis Smith. I mean he plays very very well and could have been one of the best players ever, but he would be completely out of place as a person on this team.

I do hope we do some sort of sign-n-trade with Hedo, but that means we have to take back that much in salary which may not be worth it. So let him go and use the mid-level exceptions to sign another big and maybe SF.
Potential Starting lineup:
Nelson
Carter
Lewis
Gortat (maybe Anderson)
Howard

I think Gortat stays now, but it does stink losing Lee. That is about all we really gave up to get Carter.
06/26/09 @ 13:25
Comment from: Jason [Visitor]
Oh, and don't forget how great Lewis played in game 6 against Philly when Dwight was out and he got the ball more. Knowing how great he can play offensively when he is called on like that and having him move back to his natural SF position...we will all be saying: Ya, I'm glad we got rid of the Hedo guy. Look how bad he is stinking it up with the Pistons. I'm being serious.
06/26/09 @ 13:30
Comment from: Luke [Visitor]
hey ryan dont get your hopes up vince carter is an 8 time all star,dwight howard is an all star,rashard lewis is an all star,jameer nelson is an all star how many did the cavs have last year .....2.shaq is going to mess up a big part of lebrons game too lebron wont be able to drive to the basket as easy because now they shaq so we'll see who has the last laugh.and im positive the magic will.
06/26/09 @ 15:01
Comment from: Janonny [Visitor]
@Ryan,

Ok heres the deal with your Cavs, they have been a very reactionary team the past couple off seasons. last year they tried to build a team tailored to beating the Celtics who stopped them the year before. This year the Magic stomp them out and they are everything they can into getting shaq to try to stop dwight, (yes i know they were trying to get him before the trade deadline but even still they made the deal even more ridiculous with what they are sending over there now.) The Magic are working to build a team that is championship caliber, the cavs are trying to build a team to beat the Magic and hope it works on everyone else.

06/26/09 @ 15:22
Comment from: Corbin [Visitor]
Really like the trade. Vince Carter has all the motivation to play at his best. His defense can't be worse than Turk's, who was the butt of jokes during the finals for being a step behind on critical possessions. Carter can make his own shot like Turk can so you lose nothing offensively. Lee was good, but had trouble finishing at the rim (not just the buzzer alley-oop), and was not as good as Pietrus at defending Kobe. And the Magic have one team to think about trying to beat, and so does the rest of the league, and that's the Lakers. Who else can matchup with Bryant down the stretch? A healthy Jameer Nelson with Vince Carter instead of Turk, I like that a lot. I think it could work. You know Howard will be working on his freethrows pretty much non-stop, don't you think? After thinking he lost game 4? Great trade, hope it's a rematch in the finals. Carter seems like he would end up with such a story.
06/26/09 @ 18:24
Comment from: Old School [Visitor]
The VC-to-the-Magic trade has a not-so-hidden downside that may rear its ugly head.

Yes, the Howard-Lewis-Carter-Pietrus-Nelson group is nearly an All-Star starting five.

But the team now has ZERO depth, and little hope of acquiring any.

Magic management is NOT going to pay $20 million for Turkoglu ($10 million salary, doubled for lux tax) or $10 million for Gortat (MLE salary X 2 with lux tax).

So, you're stuck with JJ Redick, maybe one MLE-level free agent, and a bunch of minimum salary bench-warmers.

If *any* of the Big 5 go down, the Magic are screwed.

To be fair, all of the other major contenders (except maybe the Lakers) are in the same boat. They all have 3-5 players making big bank, and a bunch of flotsam filling out the rosters.
06/26/09 @ 20:13
Comment from: RvM [Visitor]
Hey VC fan here. many more of us to come.

Glad that VC is back home and this'll be one great season!
06/26/09 @ 20:14
Comment from: Omar [Visitor]
in my eyes..VCs the best player alive..n no one except for Almighty God will stop the Orlando Magic next season. GO MAGIC!!!
06/27/09 @ 07:15
Comment from: Jared [Visitor] Email · http://twitter.com/jaredeasley
Why did the Magic give up Courtney Lee???
06/27/09 @ 11:00
Comment from: Michael Knapp [Visitor] Email · http://VinceCarterSanctuary.org
I can't wait to see VC playing for the Orlando Magic next season!!!. For those of us from the Daytona Beach, FL area, we know what a great guy he really is. For those of you who don't know that yet, please see for yourself at http://www.VinceCarterSanctuary.org.
06/27/09 @ 18:59
Comment from: Duval [Visitor]
Overall I like the trade. Almost all of the benefits have been talked about, so I won't repeat any of the many upsides of the trade that have already been mentioned.

There is one additional thing I want to point out. A lot of people are saddened that Courtney Lee had to be traded. He had a great rookie season. He's a smart, tough player, the kind of guy who could be a solid contributor for years to come.

Besides the Nets' salary concerns, Courtney Lee was the main reason the Nets made this deal. They see the same promise in Lee that all Megic fans do.

Courtney Lee's stock is at a premium. And to be honest, I think it was the perfect time to trade him. Courtney had a great season, but I don't see him getting that much better in the future. He's quick and athletic, but not at the same level as any top tier 2 guard. He can score and defend, but once again, nothing about him is elite. He was a 4 year college player who was composed, smart, and took advantage of all of his abilities. But really, he is not the type of player who is going to be a multiple year all-star. Courtney reminds me more of a Delonte West-type than a young Kobe.

Otis Smith realized this. He traded Lee while his stock was at a premium. So while it is sad to see Lee change teams, remember that getting Carter in return is a huge upgrade. Lee would have been a valuable contributor for sure, but he will most likely never put up the type of numbers that VC will give us next year.

Once again, I am sad to see Lee go, but the trade was a big move for the Magic, and one that made us a better team.
06/27/09 @ 21:24
Comment from: ed [Visitor]
Great move by the Magic to counter the Cavs trade for Shaq. Vince Carter maybe past his prime but is still an impact player nonetheless. In fact a motivated Vince Carter can dominate the complexion of a game. Vince is probably tired of the negativity thrown his way throughout his career. Being called a "cancer", "underachiever", "wince carter", "wasted talent", "no heart" etc etc, Vince has heard it all and he has pride and deep inside it has bothered him. Motivation? He has always wanted to prove his critics wrong. His individual stats are very good even Hall of Fame material. He was once the most athletic NBA player voted by all coaches. He was once the most popular player in the league and most admired by his peers for his skill and athleticism. What happened? Vince has never had the support to go far in the NBA Finals. He was pretty much the Raptors with not much around him. With the Nets they had the Big 3 (VC, Kidd, and RJ) but lacked depth on the inside and were pretty much a guard team. Now he is in a situation where he is probably on the best and balanced team of his NBA career. Is he motivated? I would say so. He's playing for his home town. He knows he doesn't have many NBA years left, he knows he hasn't won a champioship and this is the best opportunity to win it. He wants the world to notice him again and this time he'll be ready. "Hi I'm Vince Carter, remember me"

Trust me Orlando, the prodigal son has returned. You'll be back in the NBA Finals next year and this time you will have an answer to Kobe Bryant.
06/28/09 @ 18:40
Comment from: william aldridge [Visitor]
that was a good pick up whaen they got vince
06/28/09 @ 19:19
Comment from: Paul [Visitor]
He also hits 82% of his FTs. Kinda important given how the LA series went down.
06/29/09 @ 08:59
Comment from: JCLL [Visitor]
I am still not sure if this move will be good for orlando or not. We still don't have a starting SF (assuming SVG wants Pietrus to come off the bench), and we are now considerably thinner. What if Nelson gets injured? (and he will at some point).

It's still too early to tell if this will work or not. It depends on how the bench looks like. It'll be hard to win it all with a thin bench.

06/29/09 @ 13:07
Comment from: JCLL [Visitor]
Something else to consider is where Turk will play next season. If he ends up in the west with Portland and makes the Lakers and Spurs lifes a little harder, then it works out great for the magic.

But if he teams up with Boozer in Detroit, then it'll make the magic's life a lot harder.
06/29/09 @ 13:11
Comment from: No Lee No Problem [Visitor]
Courtney Lee will be missed but Ryan Anderson seems like a great upgrade from Battie. Big dude who can shoot the 3 at age 20.
06/29/09 @ 21:32
Comment from: vcrules15 [Member] Email
even if nelson gets injured, JCLL you have not yet seen the playmaking ablility of vince carter, go to youtube, see how the nets lacked a third pg and when devin went down, vince rose up with one night with a triple double, a 41 point game, and career highs in assists last season with a mediocre team, VC can set people up with his extraordinary passing, court vision and the knowledge of the game. Trust me, magic fans, come together for 2009-2010, our first Championship, but surely not our last
07/01/09 @ 21:50
Comment from: Calloway [Visitor]
I don't know how a feel about the trade. I like VC, but we are going to lose 5 players and only get 1 in return. Turk mostly likely to Portland, Gortat to Dallas, and you already know about the VC trade. To top it all off, the Boston Celtics mostly likely will land Rasheed (magic killer), and they have a deep bench full of big men. Looks like it's going to be Boston and LA (with Artest and resign Odom) in the finals. I love the Magic but I'm realistic. We can't compete with those teams with only a strong starting five.
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Yeah the Vince Carter was really a good trade.
AHHHHHH
NOT
Just like I always thought of Vince Carter.
He's great one night than he is misisng in action the next 40 games or so.
Never consistent or close to it.
Most of the time he SUCKS.
Thats what the Magic gets for being greedy.
I would have kept Hedo Turkoglu,and paid him better than $6,800,00.00's. He deserved it. They are so stupid enough to pay Vince Carter $16,300,00.00's. I love it how Vince Carter said I owe you guys,then sucks after that and so on. I guess he will pay you guys back next season?Guess what the Celtics won.
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