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How will Brandon Bass fit in?

07/13/09 | by Zach McCann [mail] | Categories: Analysis

The only real issue with signing Brandon Bass is that — at least technically — he plays the position where the Magic were the deepest before his arrival. Rashard Lewis and Ryan Anderson gave the Magic talent and depth at power forward, making it the only position with a legitimate starter and legitimate reserve (I’d count point guard as well, but that’s arguable).

When a team has eight players under contract, as the Magic did last week, an all-star and a promising rookie at one position feels like an overabundance of wealth.

So, at the surface, bringing in another power forward doesn’t make a whole lot of sense (especially a 6-foot-7 power forward who’s seemingly too small to fill in as the team’s primary backup center, even if the statistics say otherwise).

But that doesn't mean it was a bad signing. I love the move — like most Magic fans do — especially for the relatively inexpensive price tag. For a 23-year-old who seeps potential and has already played meaningful minutes on an upper-echelon team, $18 million over four years is a great deal.

Anytime you can attain a quality player for that kind of value, you do it.

The question is, how do the Magic plan to use Bass? Theo Ratliff is expected to sign sometime this week to fill the role as Dwight Howard’s backup, and if Ratliff doesn’t come someone else will — clearly, Bass isn’t here to backup Dwight. Additionally, many around the team expect Matt Barnes to join Orlando in the near future, adding another minutes-stealer at small forward.

With a supposed influx at the forward position, how will the situation play out?

Otis Smith (“Those guys will sort out their own minutes”) and Stan Van Gundy (“We will have a lot of options in terms of the kind of lineups we put on the floor”) are unsurprisingly mum on the subject.

Let’s look at the options of how the playing time could be divvied up on opening night and beyond.

Option A: Brandon Bass starts at power forward and Rashard Lewis returns to his natural position of small forward.

This is something I’ve long been against, as I believe Lewis at the 4 imposes more matchup problems than it creates. But with Van Gundy’s declaration that Bass in the starting lineup “certainly could happen,” this popular option is something we’ll surely discuss throughout the coming months.

Look, I love the way the Magic play with Lewis at power forward. There isn’t a starting power forward in the Eastern Conference who can consistently disrupt Lewis’ offensive game, and Lewis is better on defense than he gets credit for. At the four-spot his rebounding is weak, but he’s got the best rebounder in the NBA backing him up.

But it’s looking more and more like the Magic’s plans are to play Lewis at his natural position. Lewis was considered one of the West’s exciting young swingmen in the early 2000s, and he obviously developed into an excellent small forward for Seattle. He creates a lot of size at the 3 and can score on anyone, but I worry about Lewis’ defense on the likes of Paul Pierce and LeBron James. Will Lewis be comfortable on those guys out on the perimeter?

Option B: Lewis starts at power forward and Mickael Pietrus plays small forward while Bass battles Anderson and another backup big man for playing time.

Could the Magic throw out a more fun lineup? Jameer Nelson and Vince Carter creating in the backcourt, Lewis and Pietrus running the break and hitting corner 3-pointers, and Howard controlling the paint — the Magic would be a blast to watch on offense. Even if this isn’t the starting lineup, it’s a combination we’re sure to see a lot of.

But I think it’s undisputable that Pietrus is a better player while coming off the bench. His supreme athleticism is matched by his erratic-ism, and that’s not exactly what you want out of a guy starting alongside four all-stars. The question is, do the Magic agree? They went into last season with Pietrus as the starting two-guard, so anything could happen.

Option C: Lewis slides to small forward, Anderson starts at power forward and Bass becomes the first man off the bench.

While this scenario is unlikely, you can’t discount how much the Magic love Anderson. The only way they’d get rid of Courtney Lee was if Anderson came in return, so Anderson is surely a guy the Magic plan to use.

We’ve seen the Magic start JJ Redick and Courtney Lee for significant stretches of time (not always due to injury and before Lee was clearly the team’s best two-guard), so you never know what you’re going to get out of a Van Gundy rotation. Anderson’s primary advantage over Bass in the starting lineup is his ability to stretch the defense all the way out to the 3-point line.

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39 comments, 15 trackbacks

Comment from: SupaBran [Visitor]
Put me down for Option A.

PG: Jameer, AJ
SG: Vince, Pietrus
SF: Rashard, Matt Barnes
PF: BB, Ryan Anderson
C: D12, Theo Ratliff

Enough said, that's a nasty lineup!
07/13/09 @ 06:48
Comment from: James [Visitor]
I agree completely with Supabran. That would be the way to start the game and rotations. Also, you could easily end game with option b where lewis moves to 4 and pietrus plays 3 to get scoring linup on floor when needed. That lineup will always be available if needed depending upon matchups. But option A is the way to go. Bass can spread floor with wideopen 18 footers.. Plus even if you lose a little on O with him starting, the D will be very much improved with him at 4. Also, I feel lewis can guard 3's in the league and also post them up on O
07/13/09 @ 06:59
Comment from: JCLL [Visitor]
I am worried about Lewis wear and tear playing at the 4 long-term. I think he should finish games playing the 4, but guarding Garnet, Wallace, Brand, Bosh etc for long stretches could make get older faster than we want. (He does have a huge contract).

Assuming we get Barnes (or someone comparable), I like Option A as well.
07/13/09 @ 07:10
Comment from: Jeremy [Visitor]
I like option C.... makes us very similar to last year while having pietrus and bass off the bench. Just because Ryan Anderson starts doesn't mean he has to get alot of minutes. It will just make it harder for other teams to gameplan.
07/13/09 @ 07:26
Comment from: JCLL [Visitor]
Whatever the starting line-up, Pietrus can't start. He plays with a lot of heart (which is good off the bench), but he can be so erratic some times. Plus, he will be disruptive when he gets hurt.

I am really indifferent on the starting line-up (other than Pietrus). But, we should finish with:

PG: Nelson
SG: Carter
SF: Pietrus
PF: Lewis
C: D12

Anybody like Bass finishing games?
07/13/09 @ 07:35
Comment from: magicfaninTN [Visitor]
I've been wondering if SVG ought to experiment with JJ at the starting 2 with VC at the 3. I know that is immediately unpopular with most folks, but give me a minute to explain....

Since leaving Duke, JJ has been on and off with his shooting touch. I wonder if that is related to the difference between starting warm versus coming off the bench cold. Yeah, yeah, at this level, he should be able to come off the bench and perform, but....

JJ starting would leave MP or Bass as the first off the bench. And MP has shown to be a great 6th man.

This probably won't ever happen since there is too much ego involved with being a "starter" in the NBA, but if it would get the Magic off to a hot 1st quarter, it is worth considering.

Otherwise, I simply like the match up flexibility this roster is providing and don't really care who gets the starts, since SVG will coach mismatches against whomever we play.
07/13/09 @ 08:16
Comment from: orlbball29 [Visitor]
im with option a put jameer at point vince at sg put rashard lewis back to number 3 like he used to be put bass at power forward with ryan anderson playing deasent minutes backing him up and sign theo ratliff and he will back up D12.then if we sign matt barnes he could be a backup for lewis at the 3 spot and mikael pietrus can backup vince
07/13/09 @ 08:21
Comment from: JCLL [Visitor]
JJ did play pretty well as a started in the Boston Series, but that was a good match up for him to be guarding Allen.

I really don't think he can start consistently though. You have to start the group that will give you the best chance at winning, and JJ does not strike me as part of that group.

Besides, we have plenty of offense in Howard, Carter and Lewis. What we need in the starting line-up is more defense...Bass!
07/13/09 @ 08:24
Comment from: orlbball29 [Visitor]
and we should see who can be a better backup russell robinson or AJ.robinson is playing amazing in the summer leauge right now but AJ has so much expierence and he plays solid minutes......who should be the backup to jameer?
07/13/09 @ 08:25
Comment from: Adam [Visitor]
JCLL has the right idea. If Bass starts it is more of a conventional line up, but the team rebounding gets a lot better. A Lewis/Bass/Howard front line will create a lot more second chance points as well. However, I think the majority of games the finishing line up will have Lewis at the PF. He is a match up nightmare for most PFs in the league and creates so much space for Dwight that he has to finish games at the PF. If you also have Pietrus in that finishing line up, the defensive pressure goes up to match what you lose in rebounding (like the 2008-09 Magic).

Ryan Anderson is the X factor here. If he can play solid defense, then maybe he can finish the games with Rashard at the SF. That could be your best shooting line without loosing height. Who knows how much Anderson will contribute.

If Bass miraculously comes into camp with 38%+ three point range then this is moot because he would be great in a finishing line.
07/13/09 @ 08:30
Comment from: JCLL [Visitor]
That is a good point. We are pretty strong in the front, relative to the PG position.

What happens when Nelson gets hurt? AJ is defenitelly the first off the bench, but we need someone else.

Who is Robinson? Who in the NBA is comparable to him?
07/13/09 @ 08:30
Comment from: JCLL [Visitor]
I agree with Adam. I didn't think about the increase in offenive reb. we'll get with Bass.

We still need more though. Right now the Magin is still behind San Antonio, LA, and Boston. I think we can beat Cleveland with this team.
07/13/09 @ 08:46
Comment from: ben [Visitor] Email
hurry up sign Barnes he is a good shooter hurry up sign ratliff
07/13/09 @ 09:49
Comment from: awbasket [Visitor]
I actually agree with magicfaninTN:

Start: Howard, Lewis, Carter, Redick, and Nelson

Start JJ at the 2 even if he only plays the first 9 or 10 min of the 1st and 3rd quarters...finish the game with Nelson, Carter, Pietrus, Lewis, and Howard.

JJ was a capable starter in the playoffs and is one of the better passers on the team. With improved defense and more regular playing time I think he will improve his shot and give some good minutes at the start of each half.

A bench of AJ, Redick, Anderson, Bass and another scrubs would struggle to keep the team in the game.

But a bench of AJ, Pietrus, Anderson, Bass and one other would make things a little bit better.
07/13/09 @ 10:19
Comment from: JCLL [Visitor]
awbasket - the problem is that JJ may be the scrub in your story, assuming for a second we get some one like Barnes or Daniels.
07/13/09 @ 11:51
Comment from: aka-carter15 [Visitor]
Magic Lineup make sense

C-D12-THEO
PF-Rashard-BB
SF-BARNES-RYAN ANDERSON
SG-VC-PIETRUS-REDICK IF FOUL TROUBLE OR IF HURT
PG-JAMEER-AJ-LUE


That Should be the lineup.Rashard has to stay at 4 he the only guy that can defend guys like KG,RW,TDUNCAN,CHRIS BOSH.Brandon bass can't defend those guys or ryan anderson so Rashard has to stay at the 4.Barnes has to start so pietrus can come off the bench (pietrus is a better player off the bench)Barnes can shot and a ok defender he doesn't have to play a lot of minutes.I ready to see vc and were gonna miss C-LEE
07/13/09 @ 12:03
Comment from: jonjyfeb [Visitor] Email
Why more 3 point shooters? Nelson,Carter,Lewis,Pietrus,Anderson, Reddick and even AJ could shoot the 3 ball. Orlando got stomped in the interior in the nba finals and while other teams are getting stronger in the post to ajust to Howards dominance, Magic is still looking for 3 point shooters. Anybody you throw alongside Howard and Bass will make that 3 point shot. WE NEED MORE MUSCLES.
07/13/09 @ 12:30
Comment from: JCLL [Visitor]
Could not agree more with jonjyfeb. We need to start Bass! Get stronger!

I don't see any scenario were we win it all starting Barnes and/or JJ. They are both 3th tier players.
07/13/09 @ 12:41
Comment from: yogi [Visitor]
At time, SVG can go with this match up.
VC is a very underrated passer and can run the point really well.
i would like to see this matchup atleast for 5 mins in a game.
PG - carter
SG - pietrus
SF - rashard
PF - Ryan anderson
C - D12
sounds crazy but possible.
07/13/09 @ 12:51
Comment from: Sean [Visitor]
Zach no offense, but you make it more than obvious that your not a fan of Bass. Which is fine you will be a fan of his before we reach the allstar break. He will give this team something it hasnt had in a while.

The writing is on the wall, Bass will start at the 4.

Nelson, Johnson?
Carter, Redick?
Lewis, Pietrus?
Bass, Anderson
Howard, ?

There is the possibility of Barnes thats why the ? marks are in place.

Please tell me why our depth chart would have 3 power forwards and only 1 sf. Otis and Stan want Lewis back at the 3 to at least start the game, and thats where he should play.

Why would you pay a guy 4.5 million when you are already in the tax when you plan on putting him in a log jammed position fighting for minutes. When at the same time you have a small forward position that needs players.

Once again the writing is on the wall
07/13/09 @ 12:57
Comment from: kkalu [Visitor] Email
I like everything except Matt Barnes starting. He was not a consistent scorer or shooter when games were tough. I still want to know why we can't go after David Lee or Lamar Odom. Both players want less than Turkoglu and they could both be a double double waiting to happen. What do you all think.

pg-Jameer Nelson/ Shaun Livingston (look at his summer league video)
sg-Vince Carter/ JJ Reddick
sf-Free agent Option/Pietrus
pf-Lewis, BB, Anderson
C- D12, someone other than ratliff
07/13/09 @ 12:58
Comment from: yogi [Visitor]
what is the minimum number of players that can be on an nba team?
we have only 9 players as of now.
what happens to guys who played really well in the summer league( kasib, robinson and richardson). we definitely need another big.
wat about richard hendrix?
07/13/09 @ 13:00
Comment from: Mark [Visitor]
If JJ Redick gets re-signed you might as well write of the season. Primarily because what does that say about the leadership? Redick is not NBA caliber, esp as a starter. Remeber, the only games he played in at the Finals, were all losses, so send him to Italy where he belongs! Ciao, baby!
07/13/09 @ 13:25
Comment from: ali [Visitor]
here's what the starting line-up should be...

PG - Jameer, russell robinson, AJ,
SG - VC, Redick
SF - Lewis, Pietrus
PF - BB, Anderson
C - D12, ratliff, someone

I personally am not a huge fan of Ratliff as he is aging, but he could help.
07/13/09 @ 13:43
Comment from: Cameron [Visitor]
Redick was killing the Magic in the playoffs- They finally started winning against Boston when Van Gundy had the sense to sit him pretty much the entire game. If Barnes signs, I would start this lineup:

C- Howard
PF- Lewis
SF- Barnes
SG- Carter
PG- Nelson

This way you still get the mismatch with Lewis at PF, yet when facing a bigger team you can bring in Bass and go with a bigger lineup, and let Pietrus come in for VC and Barnes. Agree that PG depth is an issue, but it also was last year once Jameer was hurt and they had to trade for Alston. They still will have the trade exception from Hedo's deal that they can use if something like that happens again.
07/13/09 @ 13:53
Comment from: Magictime! [Visitor]
All we need is Von Wafer to @ backup PG to close it out! after Theo and Barnes..
07/13/09 @ 13:58
Comment from: jstrouse05 [Member] Email
I don't think Barnes is a good idea to start, he is very effective as a role player and starting him may be asking a little too much. Having Rashard back at the 3 is a huge advantage for the Magic against almost all the teams in the league, he is 6' 10" and there are only a few SF that can match up against him, Artest, LeBron, maybe P Pierce and Melo, but that's probably it. And having a player like Bass that will stay and rebound and not expect Dwight to get everything will be a huge plus as well, I can't remember Dwight ever playin along side a solid rebounder.
07/13/09 @ 14:16
Comment from: Jayson [Visitor]
The Orlando Sentinel is now reporting that the magic will match the offer to Marcin Gortat. Just thought you all might like to know...
07/13/09 @ 14:17
Comment from: SupaBran [Visitor]
Matching the offer for Gortat is just retarded, unless we trade him, then that's genious!
07/13/09 @ 14:34
Comment from: SupaBran [Visitor]
Genius! I type it too fast.
07/13/09 @ 14:36
Comment from: Jason of Durham [Visitor]
Congratulations Orlando fans.
I'm a Dallas guy myself, and I must say it does not matter if Bass starts or not.

I watched that man rise from the annual summer league schmuckeroo that the mavs pick up every year to Dirk's best back up since, I hate to say it, Keith Van Horn (when he was healthy during his short stay). Having an overabundance of quality big men is GREAT thing yall.
07/13/09 @ 14:39
Comment from: JCLL [Visitor]
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/orl-magic-retain-marcin-gortat-071309,0,2845810.story

Gortat will stay with the Magic!!!

Bass has to start now that we've used about all our money in the front court. It'd be pretty hard to get Barnes or Daniels now.

Lewis should move to the 3 and we have a pretty good rotation.

C D12 / Gortat
PF Bass / Anderson
SF Lweis / MP
SG Carter / MP / JJ
PG Nelson / ????? / AJ

With that roster...only LA and San Antonio look better on paper.
07/13/09 @ 15:52
Comment from: Malik [Visitor] Email · http://shotsfromthedome.com
I think with today's matching of the offer sheet for Gortat, this gives the team a solid 2-deep at each position (save point guard), with options for versatility.

As for Lewis at the 3, I think that are definite trade-offs, and he'll be asked to do different things, but with Howard behind him, he'll be able to funnel, especially with how Van Gundy coaches on that side of the court.

1 - Jameer Nelson, (Point Guard)
2 - Vince Carter, JJ Redick
3 - Rashard Lewis, Mickael Pietrus
4 - Brandon Bass, Ryan Anderson
5 - Dwight Howard, Marcin Gortat

Howard will still need to make another mini-leap, and Carter will have to play to his potential, but the Magic are in great shape for the opportunity of greatness, and that's all one can ask...
07/13/09 @ 16:05
Comment from: JCLL [Visitor]
This is as good of a roster as any other team.

We just need another capable back up PG other than AJ and a scrub at center. And also hopefully a Bogans type player as insurance.
07/13/09 @ 16:36
Comment from: Malik [Visitor] Email · http://shotsfromthedome.com
I looked briefly over the Free Agent and Restricted Free Agent point guards and no names jumped out at me.

Considering the Magic's trade exception and the need to possibly cut future payroll, I'd expect a trade for the position. The question is... where?

Is J.J. Redick a possibility despite the relative thin nature of the backcourt? If the Magic traded him and used the exception for a combo guard, wouldn't that do the trick, considering the Pietrus can play the 2?
07/13/09 @ 17:55
Comment from: Bryan [Visitor]
The Polish Hammer but jj can start any day
07/13/09 @ 22:58
Comment from: Curtis [Visitor]
I would have the line up like this:
Starters Bench
C- Howard Gortat
PF- Anderson Bass
SF- Lewis Barnes(Must Sign)
SG- Carter Pietrus
PG- Nelson Johnson

Now we will have a team that can run with the Lakers and win with no problems!
07/14/09 @ 05:40
Comment from: Correction [Visitor]
Team lost when JJ started in playoffs?!? Really?!? In fact, team was 6-3 when he started.

4/26 @Phi
W 84-81 6 1-4 .250 0-3
.000 0-0 -- 0 0 0 0 0 2 2 0 2
4/28 Phi
W 91-78 30 1-5 .200 1-4
.250 3-3 1.000 2 0 1 1 0 0 0 2 6
4/30 @Phi
W 114-89 31 5-9 .556 5-7
.714 0-0 -- 1 0 0 5 0 3 3 4 15
Numbers for April 18.3 7-18 .389 6-14 .429 3-3 1.000 0.8 0.0 0.5 1.5 0.0 1.3 1.3 1.5 5.8
DATE OPP RESULT MIN FG PCT 3P PCT FT PCT STL BLK TO PF OFF DEF TOT AST PTS
5/4 @Bos
W 95-90 29 3-5 .600 2-4
.500 4-4 1.000 1 0 0 4 0 1 1 1 12
5/6 @Bos
L 112-94 25 5-8 .625 4-6
.667 1-1 1.000 0 0 0 6 0 1 1 0 15
5/8 Bos
W 117-96 27 1-5 .200 1-2
.500 2-2 1.000 2 0 2 2 0 3 3 2 5
5/10 Bos
L 95-94 24 1-7 .143 0-5
.000 0-0 -- 1 0 0 2 0 0 0 7 2
5/12 @Bos
L 92-88 29 1-6 .167 1-4
.250 0-0 -- 0 0 0 0 1 2 3 3 3
5/14 Bos
W 83-75
07/14/09 @ 12:05
Comment from: Mark [Visitor]
"Team lost when JJ started in playoffs?!? Really?!? In fact, team was 6-3 when he started." Correction

hey Correction, Read next time. I said in the FINALS! Where it counts! They lost all three with JJ in there. Ciao Bello!
07/16/09 @ 07:40
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